David Heinemeier Hansson has renewed his criticism of Matt Mullenweg’s handling of the WP Engine dispute, accusing the WordPress co-founder of betraying open source values and “destroying trust” in the ecosystem.

Appearing on the Lex Fridman Podcast over the weekend, the Ruby on Rails creator and CTO of 37signals said Mullenweg “got so wrapped up in what he was owed that he failed to realize what he was destroying.”

Host Lex Fridman praised WordPress and Mullenweg’s legacy but added, “WP Engine just gives me bad vibes” and “I think they’re not the good guy in this.” Heinemeier Hansson pushed back on that framing, saying the conflict shouldn’t be viewed through the lens of corporate loyalty or personality. Instead, he argued, it’s a question of principle.

He likened Mullenweg’s public attacks on WP Engine — including WordPress.org’s takeover of the ACF plugin and the introduction of a “login loyalty oath” — to a ransom demand, warning that the tactics undermine the legal and ethical foundation of open source.

“You don’t get to take a gift back,” Heinemeier Hansson said. “The users of open source don’t get to demand what the makers of open source do and how they act, and the makers of open source don’t get to suddenly show up with a ransom note to the users and say, ‘Actually you owe me for all sorts of use.’”

The remarks build on his scating October 2024 blog post, Open Source Royalty and Mad Kings, in which he accused Mullenweg of weaponizing the WordPress.org plugin directory and using trademark enforcement to “extract by force.” “Matt, don’t turn into a mad king,” he wrote at the time.

Mullenweg initially responded with a since-deleted post that dismissed Heinemeier Hansson’s critique as “sloppy” and attacked his business track record, accusing him of siding with WP Engine’s private equity backers. He later deleted that post, calling it “mean,” and published a revised version that framed the conflict as a straightforward trademark dispute.

But on Fridman’s podcast, Heinemeier Hansson again rejected that defense. Whatever the legal justification, he said, Mullenweg’s actions — including what he called the “unhinged” expropriation of ACF — set a dangerous precedent for open source software.

He also said he initially held out hope that Mullenweg would reconsider and walk things back. “He could decide to give this up” and lay down his sword, he said. But he added, “I haven’t seen any evidence that Matt is interested in that and I find that deeply regretful.”

Despite his sharp criticism, Heinemeier Hansson acknowledged Mullenweg’s enormous contributions to WordPress and open source. But, he said, this conflict is about more than any one person. “We have way more to protect here,” he said. “There’s way more at stake than your personal beef or your perceived grievance over what you’re owed.”

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